This will probably shock you, but Clint Hurdle has been the manager of the Rockies since 2002. That is a long long time for a baseball manager. Outside of his one miracle season, where the Rockies got to the playoffs thanks to winning 21 of the last 22 games, and ended up losing in the world series, he has been an embarrassment of a coach. The highest win total he had outside the WS year was 76 games. That is 10 below .500. He has never won the NL West. Now he is literally becoming a dictator in the way he is managing his team.
Due to Garrett Atkins' struggles in the early part of the season, he was benched for 5 straight games as a form of punishment for sucking. This wasnt a David Ortiz situation where he got the weekend off to get his head straight, Clint Hurdle admitted that it was punishment. The he benched Troy Tulowitski for Wednesday's game because he swong at a first pitch and grounded into a double play in the 8th inning down by 5 runs. Seriously, he got benched for swinging at a first pitch. Soriano wouldnt make it 2 straight days in the lineup if that was a norm in baseball. This is how Clint Hurdle is going about teaching his team about plate discipline. He also accused of Tulo of not understanding game situation, even though there was no take sign for Tulo on the pitch. If he wanted him to take pitches, then why didnt he put up the take sign?
The Rockies have been perenially in the top 10 in the majors in OBP the entire decade. This year they have slid back to the 23rd spot, but that seems like a combination of the humidor and really bad players. Has anyone noticed how white the Rockies are? Seriously! Iannetta, Helton, Barmes, Atkins, Tulo, Spilborghs, Hawpe, Stewart, Smith, Murton. That's 10 of 13 position players who are white. Also, 9 of 13 pitchers are also white. Not to mention the Manager, General Manager, and Owner. The snow isn't the only thing that's white in Denver
I also benched Garrett Atkins on MY team as a form of punishment
ReplyDeleteYou know, I'm not totally against what Hurdle is doing. If it works and teaches these players plate discipline I'm all for it. I almost feel like your examples may be just a small sample size and you don't give/didn't find any examples where what he does and it working.
Also, let's be fair, you NEED pitching to win and it's hard to gather that year after year seeing as they play in a park smaller than my home
I'd like to get perspective from the Colorado media to see how he handles his bullpen and sets his lineup. If the people who watch him day in and day out think he does a good job with that- then let him keep his job.
Aaron Cook, De La Rosa, Jimenez? They actually have pretty good pitching (all extreme groundballers). The problem is 1) they all play at coors and 2) they all walk too many people
ReplyDeletehe has sucked since 2002. big enough sample size
ReplyDeleteReally, it's HIS fault that they play at Coors? It's HIS fault the GM went out at got this shitty rotation all these years? It's HIS fault the Rockies have no money to afford good players? Dude, it's so fucking hard to put together a great rotation which is what was needed to win and that's not on Hurdle's shoulders
ReplyDeletethe sample size argument I was making was not Hurdle's career but the examples you used to point out how bad Hurdle is. You don't know that there aren't examples where like he benched a guy who ended up turning it around. You found these two examples and make this great deduction that he's automatically the worst manager ever.
The managers do jack shit and the Rockies sucking is absolutely not Hurdle's fault. I'd really like to hear more of this story before I judge him. If Hurdle benched '06 Holliday in August for going 0-4 one random day, ok, my mind will sway a little more towards your side of the equation. But until I hear more examples, I'm not going to jump on this apparent "fire Clint Hurdle" bandwagon
And as for the Tulowitzki example, maybe he does need to learn to stop swinging at first pitches. maybe Hurdle told him many times before to stop. TT OBS and BB% are decent but maybe Hurdle wants it to get better.
As Moneyball has shown us, walking is such an innate skill and extremely hard to teach and have it continue. To overcome this huge obstacle, maybe this hard classical conditioning is the only way for the Rockies to continue having a high OBS- especially if we're going under the assumption that the TEAMS high OBS was caused by two players one of which isn't on the team anymore
And I think you're overlooking one key, Hurdle believes in strong plate discipline and OBS- at least this is what your article seems to be strongly implying. This is a great thing for a manager to believe in. Cuz even in this post-Moneyball era, there are many coaches like LaRussa and Maddon that seem to NOT believe in walking.
Again, if you can show me more examples of this authoritarian style overall hurting the team (making coaching the causal factor and taking out other factors like GM decisions and Coors Field) and/or showing me that Hurdle improperly uses his bullpen/ really fucks up his batting lineup then I will believe Hurdle deserves to be fired
But based off of two examples in which I think could actually positively benefit the team, I'm not joining you on your quest calling for anyone's job
and de la rosa, jimenez, cook, and (even this year so far) marquis is a decent to above average rotation but nothing all that great or spectacular. I think the ceiling is maybe a wild card birth or stay in contention for most of the year but nothing more. Not really the astounding rotation that helps a manager out. Think about this, if YOU were the manager of any Rockies team since 2002, could YOU do better. I don't think you can
a managers job is to win games. this guy has not won in 7 years. i dont care if he is managing single-A guys. Your excuses are weak. just because they play at coors and have crappy pitchers, thats a good enough excuse to keep hurdle. it;s his job to make his players better in order to win games. HE D/N WIN GAMES!!!
ReplyDeleteI was making the point that after sucking as a manager for 7 years, he is suddenly using extreme authoritarian measures to make his team good. Given his track record, there is reason to believe Hurdle understands baseball and even knows what is right from wrong. and if i was a player on the rockies, I wouldnt exactly be hanging on every words he says.
Imagine following an general into war who has never won a battle. How confident would you be in him, and would you really do everything he says?
I know you want lovie smith to get fired, along with much of the coaching staff. Even though they are consistently at or close to the division lead. So what is more important, winning or "how hard a manager tries". Dont forget the mission statement of this blog. Being a good manager is an inherent gift and i am convinced clint hurdle has never outcoached anyone and the team can be no worse with a different manager, and probably much better
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI begin on internet with a directory